WLL - Bar Italia Forum

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Posted by James
Anyone else a bit put out that there was no mention of WLL on the 'Also Available' leaflet with the reissues? Especially as we'd love a reissue of it 'cos there's so many tracks that wern't released. Like Cuckoo! I'd really love a demo/outtake of that...who wouldn't?
 

 
 
 
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Posted by andy
i think most people (non pulp obsessives) never heard of TIH, let alone WLL. that's probably why it never got reissued. it simpy woulndt sell. but i agree. i'd love demos from that period, they seem far more interesting than most of the tracks on the actual album (grandfather nursey srpings to mind)
 

 
 
 
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Posted by David Bachyrycz
"This is Hardcore" is way more popular than some Pulp fans want to believe.

There are people out there that hate everything else that Pulp has ever done, but still love This is Hardcore. For obvious reasons you won't be hearing their opinions on this website.

And This is Hardcore might have seemed like a commercial letdown in merry old England, but it successfully expanded Pulp's fanbase outside the UK. I think it's probably their best known album in America thanks to some actual Mtv exposure and rave reviews in just about every American music publication. (I'll take another moment to slap Pulp silly for not touring in North America to promote This is Hardcore, as I genuinely think the record might have exploded here if they'd backed it up with some live dates and radio appearances.)
 

 
 
 
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Posted by Steve Devereux
Anonymous wrote:

(I'll take another moment to slap Pulp silly for not touring in North America to promote This is Hardcore, as I genuinely think the record might have exploded here if they'd backed it up with some live dates and radio appearances.)

But they did tour North America in support of TIH! I was at the NY show!
 

 
 
 
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Posted by Steve Devereux
1998
Boston Paradise Club, 9 June
Toronto Massey Hall, 10 June
Washington DC 9.30 Club, 13 June
Washington DC Robert F. Kennedy Stadium, 14 June - Tibetan Freedom Concert
New York City Hammerstein Ballroom, 16 June

Tch.

Anyway, it got great reviews here too, and went straight in at #1 in the charts (as opposed to #117 in America, which isn't exactly setting the world on fire, surely). It's not obscure or unknown or seen as a flop as such, it's just it didn't sell anywhere near as many copies as Different Class and so its commercial performance will always seem a little underwhelming by comparison. That, and people who wanted an album of Common People/Mis-Shapes/Disco 2000 rewrites called Different Class II: More Different Class were heartily annoyed. But it's fantastic, so bollocks to them*.

* this is a joke

-- Edited by Steve Devereux at 23:36, 2006-09-16
 

 
 
 
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Posted by clodia
Three legit shows (Boston, NY and Toronto), plus a 15 minute set at the Tabetan Freedom Festival (3 songs were played) and a last minute -secret- gig with Radiohead in DC after the Tabetan Freedom Festival was cancelled due to a lightning strike does not a propper tour make.

 

 
 
 
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Posted by jamie_runoutgroove
Have to disagree. It's a chicken-and-egg thing, isn't it? Pulp went into the charts at #117 in America, which hardly encourages either the band or venues to book them onto a four-month tour of the US, which means they don't sell more records. Sure, they might have hawked more copies if they'd played in Baltimore, Los Angeles and Middle-of-Nowhere GA, but considering the almost total lack of interest shown in His 'n' Hers and Different Class on the back of the band's previous outings in North America...

(...and let's recap...)

1994
Boston Venus De Milo 15 September
Chicago Vic Theatre 17 September
Atlanta Masquerade 19 September
New Orleans Howling Wolf's 20 September
Los Angeles Hollywood Palace 24 September
San Francisco Fillmore 25 September
Toronto Phoenix Theatre 28 September
New York City Academy Theatre 29 September

1996
San Francisco Bimbo's 365 Club 21 May
Los Angeles Hollywood Grand 22 May
Minneapolis First Avenue 26 May
St Louis Riverport Amphitheatre 27 May
Chicago Metro 28 May
Toronto Opera House 30 May
Detroit St. Andrew's Hall 31 May
New York Irving Plaza 3 June
Washington DC 9.30 Club 4 June
Providence (Rhode Island) Lupo's Heartbreak Hotel 7 June
Boston Great Woods River Rave Festival 8 June
Philadelphia Theatre Of Living Arts 9 June

(what a lot of shows!)

...then I think four small northeastern shows and a stadium festival appearance was probably above and beyond the call of duty in the first place.
 

 
 
 
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Posted by Sturdy
The '94 tour was supporting Blur. His n Hers wasn't released in America until after Different Class blew up.

The '96 tour was a good one, but they hadn't quite broken through at that point. I for one, didn't discover them until after that tour was over, and I'm an old fan. Regardless, all the shows sold out within 2 hours. So, there was certainly a demand.

Most major british acts tour the States shortly after the album is released, which is an early promotional tour, aimed at tastemakers, and then they do a follow-up a 8 months or a year later. Franz Ferdinand for instance.
 

 
 
 
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Posted by Fuss Free
Looking back WLL just does not seem like a very good album to me.
The only song on it I still really like is Wickerman, the rest hasn't aged well.
(IMHO!)
But yeah, I'd be curious to hear some of the lost songs from it in good quality anyway.
 

 
 
 
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Posted by ArrGee
i think it sounds better every time i hear it. roadkill is the most beautiful song jarvis has ever written and i'm PRAYING he might do it at his solo show.
 

 
 
 
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Posted by ArrGee
Steve Devereux wrote:
That, and people who wanted an album of Common People/Mis-Shapes/Disco 2000 rewrites called Different Class II: More Different Class were heartily annoyed.

As were the people who simply wanted a slightly better record than This Is Hardcore, no matter what it sounded like.

Sorry, I know I keep saying that and I know it's probably getting annoying. I'll shut up.
 

 
 
 
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Posted by clodia
Sturdy,

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions (no matter how wrong their opinion might be) but the knife just cuts a little deeper when it comes from Pulp's biographer.
 

 
 
 
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Posted by Lia
clodia wrote:

 Looking back WLL just does not seem like a very good album to me.
The only song on it I still really like is Wickerman, the rest hasn't aged well.
(IMHO!)
But yeah, I'd be curious to hear some of the lost songs from it in good quality anyway.

I like We Love Life, and think it has aged well and was a good album at the time. I don't know why it is considered to be so poor.  Many of the reviews of the album on its release were positive, and the accompanying UK tour(s) were pretty successful, including the dates in the forests and the three night stint at Brixton.

Maybe it wasn't that successful commercially (it entered the UK album charts at #6; not bad), but it doesn't make it a bad album. Its commercial failure boils down to the fact that neither of the singles off the album did much more than dent the lower reaches of the top 30, and Pulp were effectively written off in many quarters.

I like We Love Life more than Different Class.  I think tracks like Sunrise, Birds in Your Garden, Roadkill and Wickerman have more depth than a lot of Different Class.

 

 
 
 
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Posted by Wickerman
Anonymous wrote:

 The '96 tour was a good one, but they hadn't quite broken through at that point. I for one, didn't discover them until after that tour was over, and I'm an old fan.

Sh!t, I must be an ancient fan. I discovered Pulp in the days of Gift circa 1992.  The number of record stores I visited to track down Razzmatazz.  Fortunately, PulpIntro was released, and the rest is history.
 

 
 
 
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Posted by Steve Devereux
ArrGee wrote:

Maybe it wasn't that successful commercially (it entered the UK album charts at #6; not bad), but it doesn't make it a bad album. Its commercial failure boils down to the fact that neither of the singles off the album did much more than dent the lower reaches of the top 30, and Pulp were effectively written off in many quarters.

I like We Love Life more than Different Class.  I think tracks like Sunrise, Birds in Your Garden, Roadkill and Wickerman have more depth than a lot of Different Class.

Oh, I don't really care for commercial success (or lack thereof) of albums.
I mostly judge them by how much I enjoy listening to them. And I rarely feel the urge to listen to WLL and if I do I skip most of the tracks.
It isn't a bad album, I just does not move me in any way.
(I DO agree about Roadkill, though, that one is quite sweet.)
 

 
 
 
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Posted by Sturdy
Maybe it hasn't aged as well as other Pulp albums, but still, I couldn't imagine my life without Sunrise.
 

 
 
 
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Posted by ArrGee
I think WLL is a more mature Pulp record. It's not so over the top like the albums in the 90ies, which were bombastic and big. This album is a lot softer, sounds a lot mellower and less complicated. Just like the photo's in the booklet tells us.

It wasn't a whole big project, like This Is Hardcore with it's great pictures in the booklet. The albums in the 90ies were made by a band which were living for the band, I think the band were doing a lot of other things while making WLL, so the project wasn't that big which resultated in a completely different sounding Pulp.
 

 
 
 
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Posted by Steve Devereux
Sturdy wrote:
Steve Devereux wrote:
That, and people who wanted an album of Common People/Mis-Shapes/Disco 2000 rewrites called Different Class II: More Different Class were heartily annoyed.

As were the people who simply wanted a slightly better record than This Is Hardcore, no matter what it sounded like.

Sorry, I know I keep saying that and I know it's probably getting annoying. I'll shut up.

Ah, but that's fine - disliking This Is Hardcore because you think it's crap (or almost unmitigated crap) is perfectly acceptable...
 

 
 
 
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Posted by ArrGee
As an aside, it might just be the novelty of hearing a 'new' Pulp track, but I think Dirty World is great. That's the kind of bleak dark melodrama I can handle!
 

 
 
 
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